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  • InTheMoment
    09-14 09:16 PM
    It is important to know the numbers of traditional labors filed in year 2005 before PERM was implemented on March 28, 2005. Does anybody have hard numbers on these ?

    This is a very relevant piece of info, as tons were filed because PERM was a new animal and no one wanted to play around with it before they understood it.

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  • ardnahc
    07-21 05:56 PM
    I concur with all the folks in this forum here.

    This reminded me of one of my experiences with Amway guys. This dude comes to me in a mall and started off with his usual "Amway - styled" conversation and finally said that he owns a site similar to That is when I realized and stopped him right there and said "We already have, why do you want to open a new one?" he was dumb-founded for a sec then he pretended to attend a phone call and stepped away.

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  • gomirage
    06-11 07:24 PM
    Congrats, you have arrived. Now, somebody, close the door please !!!

    To be honest, I do agree that the US needs qualified people with skillsets. The real question is "Are the people from the desi consulting companies the real qualified lot ? " Just to get my background details out of the way. I am a new member, from India ofcourse, and I have recently applied for my citizenship. Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. Staffing companies to a decent extent followed rules and tried to get the best and the brightest. Once the dot com boom started, people from all walks of life entered IT. This was true of not just the Indians but also of people in the US. Soon after the bust, the value proposition from these staffing companies was simply low cost. This is not to blame the staffing companies. They behaved in an economically rational way.

    Consider this scenario. If you run a consulting company, wouldn't you try to maximize your profits by staffing people in projects at the least cost ? This is econmically rational. You wouldn't worry much about the quality of the deliverables and all you would care is to dump as many bodies as possible at the client site or offshore and get the maximum bang for the buck.

    In this scenario, how is it feasible to expect immigrational justice when the bodies themselves dont provide exceptional talent and skills but simply offer low cost ? Now you would be tempted to bring in the analogous case of illegal low skilled immigrants. Remember they are just that - low skilled workers. They dont "steal" the jobs of high skilled workers. But this dumping of IT workforce has completely brought down the standard of living of the IT workers here. To be honest, those who get green cards today would feel the same way five years from now when the next wave of so called "skilled IT immigrants" offer even lower wages and destroy the quality of life.

    In summary, this retrogression is good in a way. The truly best and the brightest would still be employed until their turn for adjournment comes in. Only the weak are currently scared of the delays. I went through the same torrid GC phase after the tech meltdown in 2001. I was not worried of my job then but many people whom I knew got clobbered and were forced to leave. This is the darwinian flush and it will take its toll. Trust me this the bitter truth. If you people still consider that all the people on H1/L1 are part of the best and the brightest, they are WRONG. Only a small % (probably 20%) are the true best and the brightest and a good 50% will be flushed out. Sorry to say this and hey give me the red dots.

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  • ryan
    08-17 08:38 PM
    True greatness is shown by humility, not pride.

    Al Gore, Kalam, etc are great personalities.
    SRK nah!!

    Thousands of South Asians have gone through same treatment.
    Growup SRK, don't be such a baby :D.

    I have never watched his movies, and i got one more reason not to watch "My name is Khan".

    Nicely said mate. I cannot believe the kind of people who're on this forum. Some love to beat you up with all those reds for honest thoughts on someone quite insignificant, like an SRK. He is a guy who gives a hoot and remain oblivious to your dilemma or your struggles and in all probability used the alleged incident at EWR as a Public relations stunt for his new movie. Goes to show some of you truly have no self esteem in yourself. Unfortunate.


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  • chintu25
    02-14 02:02 PM
    There are moments when the will of a handful of free men breaks through determinism and opens up new roads.

    ~Charles de Gaulle

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  • gopinathan
    07-28 10:39 AM
    if someone talk to you about this business - next time, simply say you already quit this business once. that should stop them...


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  • GCmuddu_H1BVaddu
    09-12 09:13 PM
    Hey _TrueFacts,

    Will you stop the caste based shit here. F**k you a** yourself idiot. You are so called senior member shitting here idiot.

    Last nail in YSR�s coffin

    Jagan gets 3 choices: DyCM, mantri, PCC (

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  • maximus777
    08-17 10:31 AM
    This is a country of law. If your name is flagged by any reason, no matter who you are, you are going to send for secondary investigation. There are thousands of peoples pulled for secondary investigation everyday. Are they all Khan? SRK, you lost your credibility on this issue.
    In 2002, then President Bush's two teenager twin daughters were charged for producing fake ID to buy beer in the Texas bar. Instead of supporting daughter, President apologize.
    In Baltimore, where I live, charged Micheal Phelps (winner of 8 gold medals in last Olympic) for having accident with expired Driving License.
    When India will come out of "Celebrity worship"?

    The VIP culture and the sense of entitlement in India is sickening :mad: I would understand if George Fernandes had raised a fuss since he was travelling as a diplomat, but SRK is pure dung!! FFS, he is there only to promote his movie - like some one mentioned here, the world doesnt come to an end if he is delayed by an hour or if the movie flops or doesnt even see the light of day.


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  • gc_wow
    08-15 10:29 PM
    Bollywood should first pay taxes, none of these icons, pay taxes legimately in India, remember them dancing in the partys of mafia, which is tied to terrorists, I think the agent did a great job in nabbing this guy. The VVIP mentality should end in India. Stupid illeterate politicians are over playing this, Ambika Soni should do what she is supossed to do in her office.

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  • harikris
    05-28 11:10 PM
    This is precisely not what i wanted to hear.
    It puts a damper on hope.
    Now we have to hope against hope to see any movement forward.
    There are only 3 ways i can see for improvement
    1. Legislation
    2. New legislation
    3. And fast legislation


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  • poorslumdog
    05-02 05:33 PM
    Dude I am not saying Aravas needs to learn Hindi.. Why should they an Hindi in TN that is the over piched loudness I am talking about. Chennai is metro city dude.. So many language people are stying there... for rest of the indian the hindi boards needed... Whats wrong..
    But politicians and tamil activists successfully spread the hatered...:eek:

    Then go to Asam and the naxels are waiting to kick your ass. And go to Mumbai and the Raj thakrey will give you enough shit

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  • Marphad
    06-16 04:33 PM
    Nice well thought out arguments. This is the essence of a healthy debate.


    I don't understand why we are doing this debate. Dilip (citizen's representative - dilipcr) feels that living standard is going down coz of H1 & L1 people and not because of 2 wars we are fighting. He needs help. You can do it by not answering him.



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  • mundada
    06-15 04:18 PM
    I hear you buddy but that is what America is and that is what makes America so great. The constant flow of immigrants/productivity growth through technological enhancements will always require you to keep upgrading your skills and hence your salary.

    The moment you were forced to enroll in MBA in an effort to upgrade your skills and hence increase your salary means American model and (comparative advantage) economics are working.

    The same thing happened in agriculture, then manufacturing, and now IT and other industries. It is inevitable!

    By the way, it is not dumping. Here is the real definition of dumping, "the act of a manufacturer in one country exporting a product to another country at a price which is either below the price it charges in its home market or is below its costs of production".

    For your information, I like everyone was, am and will most likely continue to be affected by the outsourcing/offshoring/onshoring/immigration/technological innovation/etc.

    Finally protectionism does not work. Take a look at Detroit... in 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, the workers bargained for high salaries, job security, retirement benefit plans, etc., free and clear from any foreign worker competition. And now in 2009, take a look at what happened to these workers at the big three, to their house values, to their children's future, to their retirement funds, etc.

    After this do you really think you can protect yourself by closing the door behind you when that is the only exit door, in case you need one!

    Ivar and group,

    I think you guys are missing the plot here. Let me reiterate loud and clear. I am NOT against immigrants getting GC. I will not, even in my wildest dreams, claim that the recession is due to the H1Bs and L1s. That is complete baloney spread around by the anti immigrant lobby. My point is let the deserving the GCs soon and not go thru the mindless wait I went thru.

    Having said that I am for the following :

    1. If the outsourcing companies would pay on an avg at 80K per head for the "well qualified" people, I am even ok with their dumping their dumping the L1s here. Why is it that you guys are ok with the L1s being dumped at 40K-60K salaries ? Shuldn't they get paid high too ? This is what I am arguing for. If the outsourcing cos dont want to pay this rate, then keep them in the country of origin. No need to depress wages here. Is this a wrong thing to ask ?

    2. Grassley's bill may force some companies to move entirely to India or China. Isnt that good for India and China ? Why are the pro immigrants against this ? Some times I get the feeling as to who actually is pro and who is anti immigrant !!!! In adition, it may eliminate the many backlogs and help the deserving people here.

    3. People who have made a conscious decision to immigrate here have done so considering the standard of living as one of the primary factors in their decisions. In order to enjoy this standard of living, people have to constantly upgrade skillsets to remain competitive in an industry or move to another industry where mass interest is relatively low. Why should these people's lives, after all the travails, be impacted by the low wage scum outsourcing companies. Please remember these companies, like an other company on earth, operate only on self interest. No point in supporting such companies which in adition to the self interest principle also flout rules with abandon.

    4. In my opinion, self interest has alwyas resulted in the greater good of society. Do not confuse self interest with greed. Greed is what caused this financial mess. If people/companies operated with concern for greater societal good, they would have spent billions in concocting an AIDS vaccine for the children in Africa than to spend the same billions in concocting VIAGRA for the rich old men. Since employment based immigration debate involves companies' interests too, we have to balance societal good with some impact for the companies. My suggestion here is that let the outsourcers take the hit. They have always benefitted by flouting the rules. If your concern is way too high for your L1 brothers then you would find it prudent to bring in the law that clearly states "Pay high wages for the L1s or dont bring them in here". I dont understand what is wrong here ? Is it that I didnt convey my message across right or is it that people blindly support immigration ?

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  • vdlrao
    09-17 02:03 AM
    I got the below numbers from the PERM FDLC site for the applications filed in 2005 and approved in different years of 2005,6,7,8
    2005 India 1353 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2005)
    2006 India 3888 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2006)
    2007 India 60 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2007)
    2008 India 10 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2008)

    Total 5311
    5311 for both EB1-5 : So taking 50% for EB2I - 2655
    GC : 2655*2.5 = 6637 ~ 6500 (considering lucky 2008 Aug-Sep approvals, 2009 Sept)
    These are the right numbers for the 2005. Thanks for tempgc for doing this. And the corresponding numbers 3888, 60, 10 have to be deducted against from the years 2006, 2007 and 2008 respectively.


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  • GCard_Dream
    05-25 12:36 PM
    Oh ya... you think the immigration fees in US are low. Wait till this bill takes effect and you have to pay 5000 dollars just to get a damn H1-B then you will know who charges more for immigration fees.

    As it is the fee is 1500 hundred dollars which is not a joke for lot of people. We normally don't complain because employers pick up the tab. By the way this doesn't even include the lawyer's fee yet.

    I mean how do people come up with things like these to say.

    Its blatant racism here. THe population is aging and the government makes a big chunk of money via immigration fees.

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  • JunRN
    02-13 01:22 PM
    I don't think removing the per country cap will solve the problem. It will balance retrogression by giving each country equal share of misery while the visa number allocation per year stays the same. It also requires changes in the statute which is almost impossible to happen because the legislators, either Dem. or GOP, will not agree to removing the cap. So let's be realistic.

    The best solution is to recapture unused visas from previous years and increase the quota per year.


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  • _TrueFacts
    09-08 10:19 PM
    The 'born again' politician – 3 (

    by Kumar Narasimha; Kumar is set for a comprehensive biography of YSR.

    Estimates vary on how much wealth YSR's very large extended family and circle of friends accumulated between 2004-2009.Some say it is close to Rs. 50, 000 crore and others say it is probably around Rs. 25, 000 crore. Whatever the number is, even Naidu's mind might have boggled at the scale, I reckon.

    So, what is the political and/or developmental legacy of YSR ? Large scale corruption through crony capitalism balanced by welfare doles to the poor ? Or is it, as seen by his fans, a balanced approach to development between the urban areas and the rural ones? Or, is it, center right to make business happy and center left to make the poor survive? To me, it looked like YSR focused on winning the 2009 election from day 1 of his first term and he did this by systematically giving out sops.

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  • longq
    02-13 07:10 PM
    (a) INA 202(a)(3) states that the total number of visas available under both subsections (a) and (b) [...] exceeds the number of qualified immigrants [...] (2) shall not apply [...]. In your case, there are no excess visas available for FB immigrants.

    (b) INA 202(e) Special Rules for Countries at Ceiling. requires that additional visas are distributed according to the world-wide distribution across FB and EB categories. Of the 100 unused visas 77 would have to be alloted to FB, and only 22 to EB categories. Assuming a 1/3 distribution in EB categories EB1, EB2, EB3, 7 would go to EB2.

    If USCIS cannot follow this rule, those 100 visas would be unused for that fiscal year.

    With AC21, the 100 can be assigned to oversubscribed countries, if Visas are available, ie. demand in all categories is less than supply. With EB3-ROW retrogressed, that is not the case.

    Just the way I see it....

    No. You are wrong..
    202 (e)(3) will not applicable, because of (a)(5).

    The third point excempts that ..

    (3) 3/ except as provided in subsection (a)(5), the proportion of the visa numbers made available under each of paragraphs (1) through (5) of section 203(b) is equal to the ratio of the total number of visas made available under the respective paragraph to the total number of visas made available under section 203(b).

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  • jchan
    07-25 10:48 AM
    VDLRAO - You brought lot of valid points which supported by authentic statistics. But surprisingly Ron�s comment about the Aug bulletin is totally vague. You can throw the numbers to prove your claim but I don�t think Ron really has any such numerical explanation for his statement.

    With all due respect, I beg to differ from Ron (probably for the first time).

    I agree with vdlrao completely. The horizontal spill over rule essentially gives all EB1/EB2 visa to EB2's. This will make the EB2 cutoff dates leap and bounce forward. For EB3, however, there won't be any spill over data until EB2 become all current.

    In Oppennheimer's reply to Ron Gotcher's question, he mentioned that the horizontal rule was set after he 'had consulation with the congress', so it's very unlikely to have any change to this rule till some legislation changes take place.

    01-13 12:15 PM
    why doesn't anyone in iv core get it dammit..... this is crystal clear..... what more do u want...... now get mov'in & get green cards for all of us by next week..... :rolleyes:

    Good Things about IV
    1. IV Core does not conduct its business in the forum. They learnt this lesson a long time ago.
    2. All their work is done in the donor forum and behind the scenes by volunteers
    3. If they feel that any idea is worth pursuing they invite that person (with the idea) behind the scenes and pursue that idea
    4. All the work is done by IV members themselves because they are helping themselves
    5. IV members are investing time and money to do work which impacts a large number of immigrants
    6. That is a professional way to do stuff and i admire the way work is done at IV

    Concerns of IV
    1. IV always states about the lack of will of people to do something for themselves
    2. IV always states that people just comment on forum but do not step forward to do stuff
    3. IV always says that people do not donate enough and without donation a grassroot organization will not survive

    What IV is doing wrong
    1. IV talks about a holistic approach whereby the benefit to EB community will trickle down and once EB2 will become current EB3 will get benefit of spillover
    2. IV is assuming EB2 will become current but with the number of indians coming to USA and number of indian students who will graduate from MS courses in USA over the next 5 years EB2I will always be backlogged
    3. Plus we are not even talking about EB2 ROW and EB3ROW demand which could go up
    4. Supporting the DV 55k bill to US educated GC applicants on the whole looks like a great plan. Sure here are 55k and here are about 150 k GC applicants. 150 - 50 IS 100 K. So if the bill passes we reduce the backlog by 50 k. Now i will am one of the person who will be getting a GC because i am US educated but my opposition to this bill is on principle
    5. What IV has to realise is that it is not only IV members specifically but it is a whole lot of non IV members who are EB3 who have been a bigger person in this whole immigration retorgression advocacy scheme of things till now.

    How let me explain. We have seen EB3 persons from 2002 who are still waiting for GC and who are not getting spill over visas because EB2 is using up all the spill over visas. So do you see any EB3 now complaining about the rule change supported by IV and made by USCIS whereby EB2 gets spill over visas. NO we do not see any EB3 complaining. That is because EB3 as a whole understands that that rule in the past being interpeted in a wrong way and the current way is the correct interpetation. Sure the old method gave EB3 some extra spill over visa benefit but the new interpetation caused EB3 to dry up compleletly. Now that in itself is against the very nature of self preservation by definition, But EB3 went along for the greater good

    What IV can do right
    1. Now we have this 55K DV Bill. This is something different from the spillover (which is law and cannot be changed). This is one time oppurtunity to alieviate the sufferings of EB group as a whole. So can IV which is supposed to be talking for the whole EB community do the right thing here and ensure (with advocacy they are so good at) that IV's stand is that 55K visa are given to all GC applicant from retrogressed countries based on oldest priority date first irrespective of EB2 and EB3.

    2. The concequence of such a move is that long retrogressed EB applicants will get relief (Which is one of the point IV talks about in their charter)
    3. Sure Many US educated applicants from EB2 and EB3 will oppose this move because lets face it, this move impacts their getting GC sooner. And if they behave like that they are in the same category as EB2 guys on this forum who do not entertain any idea which will impact their getting GC soon.

    What wil happen if IV does the above
    1. The DV 55K bill will NEVER pass in congress. This along with the other bills we have seen will bite the dust because no one in the current economic scenario would like to see more immigrants (US educated or not)

    2. The DV 55K bill will fail but IV would have achieved what it has failed to do till now. Get the support of EB3 community which they claim to represent.

    How how does this work. This is a suggestion for discussion NOT a diktat to IV core to implement. If IV core does not allow discussion on this (and moderate this because frankly some of your existing advocacy group members and volunteers do not know what a discussion is and come out both fists swinging) then that is IV core perogative. they have that right since this is their system and they worked hard for it, and they believe what they say is right.

    One question i do have for all the members who have argued with me here. Have you seen all the discussion i have participated under and my other posts. Please do that before yelling that i was a member since 2006 and freeloader and all that. You need to do this because if i am you enemy (Scounderal, Liad weed, Anti Immgrant, Future USA etc) then don't you think to know your enemy is better.

    On a funny flip side ...............................
    How will this be treated by the current members
    Ohh He is a liar, cheat, sounderrl, absurer, voilent person, free loader, smooch, weed, Anti Immgrant, future USA and other unspeakable things

    By the way guys i am a She not a He


    07-22 12:01 AM
    The Thing is No Matter how much we go logically, but nobodys know which direction USCIS will take.
    Not that I am contradicting your logic for calculations, i completely agree with your calculations.





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