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  • a1b2c3
    01-14 12:48 PM
    Check what they are paying. I know a company which charges $110-$130 ph to the client and payes around $30K for the employee in L1. Is it good business practice...? Not only desi consulting cos...these a$$ also the reason we are in this mess today. Just imagine when the antis comes to know that 30K pa salary....

    V true.

    Folks, the memo clearly empowers USCIS to crack down on consulting firms which don't have any in-house infrastructure (other than contractors) to execute projects.
    H1B is misused for a long time now by these firms and it was high time they put the screws on these "job shops" as they call it. Unfortunately some talented workers will get impacted.
    But if they are talented they will find opportunities elsewhere. Trust me on that. And better opportunities.

    Nathan is exactly right. These firms have created a mess by bending rules everywhere.

    Don't start speculating that USCIS is trying to throw out all immigrants from this country. I'm surprised that folks don't take a proper view of the situation (yeah..bring the reds on and call me an anti-immigrant).

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  • mbawa2574
    02-15 04:38 PM
    Employers hire only based on talent, ROW people must have less marketable skills or not want to leave their countries and we need to teach the US on capitalist principles.
    You are absolutely right, you didn't miss my point, you completely lost touch with reality.
    People who keep asking that we just stop the discussion, tell me how we can focus on the issues with people telling us there r more of them here because they are smarter and more marketable. Is this their idea of how to bring us together?

    I will say we are one. We can a fair system which allows skills to be a deciding cretaria for EB immigration not the country of origin. If you ask me I will say there should be no cap on total number of EB Immg. visas and no country of birth cap. You want equality so stop supporting discrimination first.

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  • shukla77
    05-29 04:38 PM
    Following is my small idea

    -Let us only 100-150 people work on this. More than that is unlikely among us united high skilled immigrants:)
    - Send 5 letters every weekend.Send one letter to president and 4 to different senators/House of rep..Not email but regular mail.
    -continue on this for next 3 months
    ( Key is to keep doing this every weekend 3-4 Months)

    To start with i suggest on having a separate quota (not counted towards 140,000) for Masters/PhD students. That should ease most of the pain.

    If anybody has other bright ideas, feel free

    Channel your outrage on a positive action item

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  • desi3933
    06-16 04:33 PM
    Where did you get that 80k number? You think 80k is good salary for that job, someone else may say 65k, I may say 90k. The salary, among other things, is determined by market forces. If you can't find enough people with xyz then company will be forced to offer more.

    As long as there are people who are ready to work on salary 52k (example), employer will not pay 70k. As long as employer is following all the legal requirements, no one can dictate salary for the job.

    I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market. No well meaning employer will undercut to save a few pennies at the risk of losing out on quality.
    What if the market pay scales are distorted through pervasive fraud ? If you look at it from an employer's view, it gets murkier. Believe it or not, low cost always signal lower quality. Trust me this is marketing 101. Google low cost and the perceptive signals. It is truly tough for the employer to trust the low cost employee's skillset.

    Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud. Like other industries such as manufacturing/agriculture etc, IT wages are destined to decline but not at this rate. The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living. So per your argument, yes the end employer is following the rules by employing people from the outsourcing company because the employer does not know or looks the other way of the outsourcing company committing pervasive fraud. Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too. It was not based on any scientific or statistical evidence.

    >> I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market.
    I am glad we are on the same page on this. It is employer who decides how much to pay. Employee decides whether to take the offer or not. Simple.

    >> Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud.
    Well, you can report the fraudulent activity. If one is wronged, he/she has option of legal route and claiming punitive damages.

    >> The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living.
    If my employer pays me less salary, I have option to move to another job. Just like my employer has option to fire me and replace with another qualified worker. Again, unless otherwise, I assume all actions are legal. I don't know about you, but when I came to USA, nobody give me assurance or guarantee that this job is future will pay me at least xx k per year so as to maintain quality of life. Here, two person of equal talent, could be earning 60k and 120k per year. It depends on your skill set, how do you sell yourself, and luck. An example - I have backgound both in Comp Science and Finance, so I look for opportunities where I can use both of them for effective leverage. If you think that I didn't face outsourcing challage or was not given pink slip, then you are wrong. As most professionals, I have seen good days and not-so-good days.

    >> Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too.
    With your admission, it is employer's choice on how much to pay. As long as law is followed, you or I can NOT decide on anyone else's salary.

    >> For the most part it is if it were left to market forces. Employers, rationally, would only want as much as talent for the price they pay. Most importantly, employers would be willing to go the extra mile to sponsor green cards only if they perceive that the immigrant employee would add value both in the present and the future.
    Bad things do happen. Projects get cancelled as Customer is no longer interested. Employer wants to move from Chicago to Dallas, that may prompt employee to look elsewhere. Some employers do not process green card at all (It happened to me, a Big Bank was not processing Green Cards in 1999). You assume all good and rosy will happen to guenine employers and good employees.

    >> Now again, when I say employers, I mean the genuine employers and not the fly by night consulting body shops or the outsourcing companies.
    Just as some employers with permanent positions are not good, there are some employers in Consulting and Outsourcing world that may be good. Let USCIS and other agencies determine who are genuine employers or not.

    >> I strongly believe that EB based GC for a very large part is built on merit. You may see sme cases wherein some ordinary people getting green cards. They, in my opinion , are mostly from these body shops who got "lucky". Cant believe I am using that word !!!
    No sir. It is employer-employment based. If you don't have employer to back your I-140, how will get green card. Do you know there is a category - Eb3 skilled worker, where benefiery does not even need bachelor degree. What do you think, those people are "lucky". If so, please take your arguement to Senators and USCIS to restict GC for "merit based" only. Until then, as long as one is getting green card, as per current law, (again as per current law), who are we to complain?

    GC is not IIT-JEE exam where there is only one classification. Clear the exam and get the admission. There are varoius categories from EB-1 (Rocket Scientist) to EB-4 (Priest). This is not one-size-fits-all.

    We need to look at issues faced by EB based community from a distance and without the glasses of issues faced personally by us. Until then, it is fight that one is more deserving than the other.



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  • okuzmin
    05-09 04:37 PM
    pmat, a word of caution and experience on FBI fingerprints/background checks.

    If you're submitting fingerprints for yourself and your spouse, make sure you have certified funds of $18 (I believe that's the correct amount, but I might be wrong) PER PERSON, i.e., $36 for two people. In the instructions they just say "$18 for the background check" and give you a form to list yourself and any other adults in your family. I had to call and confirm that it's $18 a person.

    They have a backlog of these background checks now; in the instructions it says the process takes up to 8 weeks, while nowadays it's up to 3 months and sometimes even longer.

    It might take about a year for the Canadian Consulate to process your first batch of documents. In my case, it took 11 months. Then they notified us that our interviews were waived. In the same letter they requested the following docs:

    updated letters of experience from my current employer;
    updated financial docs (tax returns, pay stubs, W2's, and bank funds confirmation);
    updated FBI certificates.

    It doesn't say anywhere in the instructions that your fingerprint cards are only good for 1 year. When I sent my "old" fingerprints (I had two sets of those made the first time we applied), FBI returned them unprocessed after 3 months and asked for the updated fingerprint cards. Then it took them another 2 months to process those.

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  • gcdreamer05
    03-27 12:13 PM
    One idiot without giving him name in comments started abusing in Hindi language.
    Dude when you have guts to put comments then put your name in it. So that I know who has issues with my comments to thread.

    And just don't give red " just for the sake of giving it make you feel happy ".

    Hey how/where do you see the comments?


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  • Jerrome
    09-24 06:05 PM
    Spillover would be by PD so China will not get same number of EB2 numbers as India. India has many more old applications then China.

    I assume they move both the countries PD to the same year/month if the spill over happens. Atleast in the past, it would be interesting to see how they move now.

    Even in all the scenarios it is less likely to go in to 2007, if not beyond June 2006.

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  • ita
    03-30 02:37 PM
    Though you don't seem to be very articulate about Indian political scenario let me ask you didn't you know why nuclear deal was/is always called controversial?Why it was not at all popular among the masses

    In Telugu apparently there is a saying coming from during the Nawab days in Hyd.
    It translates to this..
    A honorable pretty woman spotted by Nawab was given the ultimatum to either join his harem (where of course she will be showered with all luxuries) or she will be branded slut.

    I don't know if I'm missing something but this pretty much explains Nuclear deal. Only time will tell what luxuries country will reap from it.

    Do some research on Nuclear deal and see what it will bring to India in the next couple of decades. And tell me what Mr.Advani brought us when they were in power.


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  • gc_on_demand
    05-28 11:19 PM
    Titanic has already hit the ice berg.. Lets see how far we can survive in given economy.

    Didn't Nixtor ( From IV Core ) posted same or simmilar comment from Visa officer ( Again AC21 ) on Domor's Forum.

    Only hope if any little ... is VISA RECAPTURE.

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  • go_guy123
    08-16 01:24 AM
    Don’t make a big deal of Shah Rukh’s detention:One For The Road:Anand Soondas's blog-The Times Of India (

    One For The RoadDon�t make a big deal of Shah Rukh�s detention

    After a long time actor Salman Khan has come up with a real gem. On hearing about Shah Rukh Khan being questioned by US security at Newark, New Jersey, he said it�s good that the country has such a tight set-up. And that ``there has been no attack after 9/11 because of this.��

    Salman has a point. SRK might be an icon to Indians and many in the subcontinent, even to the desi diaspora spread across the globe, but to America he�s just a visitor. We may be convinced he cannot be involved in anything that�s remotely violent, but the guard given the responsibility of stopping something like 9/11 from happening in his country again will want to take no chances. And what is the possibility that he�s a die hard fan of the Khan and Bollywood? Very slim.

    Interestingly, the same day that SRK was detained in Newark, there came news that the great Bob Dylan, who was wandering around Long Branch, near New York City, sometime back, was asked for an ID by two cops too young to know who he really was. When he couldn�t furnish one, he was taken right back to the resort where he was putting up and staff there vouched for him. And America is Dylan�s own country.

    Was there a furore? Not that I know of. Not even a little blowin' in the wind.

    SRK says he�s ``upset and angry�� because it was his Muslim name that caused all this. Thousands of Muslims are made to go through extra security checks everyday in America and a host of Western countries. Is he equally upset at that? He's probably just pissed that it happened to him, India's mega star. We all know how a lot of Muslims have been subjected to prejudice around the world because many countries see terrorism as an Islamic phenomenon. Yes, it is uncalled for, unjust and maybe wrong. But America is a country that takes the killings of its people with the seriousness it deserves, unlike India whose record on this is shameful, to say the least.

    Also, because most of the perpetrators of 9/11 were Muslims, America thinks it has to be doubly careful where they are concerned. Had the terrorists been Jews, perhaps it would have looked at Jews with similar suspicion. I was much more aggrieved at President Kalam being frisked. But that�s a dated debate.

    There are two layers to the SRK incident and we must peel them off with care. One, it is quite ridiculous that Indians feel their icons and superstars are everybody�s icons and superstars. What the heck? If Jet Li came to India tomorrow, the man on the street here would probably call him �`Chinky�� and not give a second look. For that matter, what if G�rard Depardieu came travelling. How many would know him? Matt Damon was here recently and there wasn�t a traffic jam in Delhi. These guys are huge back home.

    Moreover, America doesn�t have a culture of fawning the way India has. Mike Tyson was treated like a common rapist and spent most part of his youth in the slammer. Winona Ryder was sentenced to a three-year probation for shoplifting. Chinese born Hollywood actress Bai Ling was fined US 200 dollars for petty theft.

    More importantly, we are actually aggrieved because we are ``not like them��. Well, guess what. It isn�t a virtue. We should be like them and take the security of our country and its people with solemn, no-nonsense professionalism. Frisk Brad Pitt when he lands in India next. Give Tom Cruise the same dose. Don�t spare Bill Clinton either. Isn�t he an ex-prez just like Kalam? Who�s stopping you and what�s stopping you? Colonial hangover? Or is it plain lethargy and callousness. Looks like both.

    We are just whimpering over here like hurt puppies because we feel, ``Oh, but we don�t do it to them��. Oh no, we don�t. And it�s a scandal. We should. I�ve seen white men � and women � get away in India with murder. Indian women can�t get into some discos wearing a sari. And bouncers will frown at you if you are dressed in a kurta. Have you seen what some of these firangs have on them? No one bats a eyelid.
    So instead of making SRK�s detention an issue, we should think of upgrading our own security set-up.

    There�s a lesson in this. And it is a positive one. A day after our own 26/11, there was hardly any security at CST in Mumbai. It can�t get worse than that. The bottom line: Stop fawning, shed the colonial hangover and make no compromise where the country�s safety is concerned. Can we do that or is it too much to ask from a country that�s been free for 62 years but was ruled by white sahibs for 200?

    Well said and India there is a culture of babu where VIPs are not checked at all....otherwise the wrath of the high officer will strike on the junior officer.


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  • TeddyKoochu
    07-22 12:36 PM
    Teddy ... I like your calculation and read all your posting on Calculation thread. This is a fun thread to relax. So don't take it seriously.

    If I was bad person then I will try to derail the good thread.

    Iam sorry, by OP I meant the original poster of the thread (The person who wrote the first post) not yourself. Your post is perfectly ok like all and its a fun thread. You are a nice guy :). My bad in quoting your post and causing the confusion.

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  • rsdang1
    10-16 11:42 AM
    I understand this is a simple estimate but - if and its a big if - it works then it would be a great Diwali gift for all EB2 folks and subsequently open spill over for EB3... Keep the faith...


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  • _TrueFacts
    09-04 11:09 AM
    YSR is far better than Chandrababu Naidu(Iron Leg) and Balakrishna

    Comparing people on levels of corruption is an excuse to accept some one new. By the way you forgot..YSR did a graduate to a higher level killings, land grabbing, distribution of wealth, free Vatican trips.

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  • grupak
    02-13 08:51 PM
    Easy now!!! Simmer down.....

    Its just that every time the VB comes out, we get a lot of posts from folks from India/China who want to remove country limits. And they talk about only removing the country limits, as if removing country limits is going to solve the problem.
    You scare away ROW when you do that.

    Those who talk about only removing the country cap have not thought through the problem carefully. It will only slow everybody down. At the same time only increasing the visa number by say a factor of 2 will not solve the problem either since majority of EB GC are from a few countries.

    As paskal, others and I have been saying IV is for all EB GC, and we should look at solutions that help everyone.


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  • manderson
    02-15 12:20 PM
    Type "retrogression" in Google search bar - when the results page shows up, look at the right hand side, there under the Sponsored Links you will see IV advertisement and link.

    Looks pretty cool. GO IV!

    when did you check?

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  • rahulpaper
    06-28 05:20 PM
    the cycle for visa exhaustion has to happen before USCIS triggers action....its just not how many applications showed up on their door...and one(including me) should not feel toooo bad if we are not able to submit application becasue the visa numbers were exhausted. More painful will be if it is only based on applications received and mine went in a little later than others. lot of hard works has gone into prepraing this application. I would hire my attorney to put a suit against himself...

    As i understand it...number of applications received by USCIS on july 2nd does not in any way affect the acceptance of application on july you see it as i see it

    Its all theory ...Do you have any explanation why they rejected for the " Other workers" in june period


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  • mbartosik
    02-13 10:56 PM
    you cannot sue for incompetence, or the courts would be full!

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  • smuggymba
    01-15 04:08 PM
    Body shops aka desi dallas have bad business practices as someone just mentioned - all they do is provide a TAX ID.....nothing else.

    You have to find a project on your own, no pay on bench, no proper office space - renting 2 rooms doesn't make a company, no benefits or medical insurance. Since an H1-B person requires an employer to do paper work - that is all what they do.

    As someone just mentioned, this rule is not against H1-Bs but against such ppl who have bad business practices. Not all desi dallas are bad - 10-15% are good also.

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  • hopefulgc
    05-29 09:25 AM
    Seems like Mr. charles is full of shit. He is sounding "informed" but i don't think they know what the real numbers are....YET. It showed inadvertently, when he said "based on the Eb3 demand for the rest of the year". Hello.. EB3 is unavailable.

    I mean what do you expect him to do when you corner him and start asking him questions. He is gonna have to throw numbers out there to make himself look informed and intelligent and on top of his game.

    The sad part is he is going to now set the VBs as he stated here to validate his erroneous statements.

    1. Employment-Based Visa Number Movement and Predictions

    09-24 12:06 PM
    I think your analysis considers EB1(ROW)+EB2(ROW) spill over to EB3(ROW) that is not true,

    EB1 Overflow ---> EB2
    EB2 Overflow ---> EB2(I)+EB China

    That means as per your calculation, it would be 19,282 considering 0 EB1 and EB2 filled in 2010.

    As i said in my previous posts EB2 would be May 2006 by end of this year for sure.
    Best case scenario considering more than 30K spill over it would be end of 2006.

    You are also calculating spillover as of today with the pending cases, but the spill over happens only in Last quarter of 2010. There would be some if not more EB1+EB2 ROW applicants.

    One thing for spillover is sure and that is it is happening at the end of a year. If we read the Visa bulletin 2 methods of spillover can be derived.

    1) Spillover within preference first and then to country

    Example: additional numbers of EB2- I go to EB2-M/C and after that any left ones go to
    EB3 category
    2) Spillover within contry first

    Example: EB2-I - any extra numbers go to EB3-I and still left go to "unused" ready to be used by other oversubscribed country.

    Now USCIS may be doing spillover by any of these methods or combination. I think none of us have exact proof which way USCIS does spillover.

    In analysis we need to assume one or other path and that is what I did.

    Yes, current new influx of applications is a major item to factor in but I was working on the data what USCIS published and it has not published current influx. Every month calculations get changed.

    09-17 04:51 PM
    I do not think it would be 10,000 primary. Probably around 3000 ~ 5000 primary applications. But if you consider dependents yes we may be talking about nearly 10,000 EB2I visas.

    I think it is between 3000 and 3500, with depended this comes to 7500.

    In 2008, 10% of these already got approved.
    Some 10% may have abandon application or used other priority days (porting).
    Some 5% may have used cross-chargeable

    So we are looking at a number close to 5000-6000 for Jan-March 2005.

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